[1.10] Destroyer Mahakassapa (Necro) [Level 32 | A1 NM | Lod | Hardcore | Retired]

[fearedbliss]

The time has come for me to return back home to my childhood patch, 1.10. I started playing D2 back during the first ladder season of 1.10 in 2003, probably around 11-12 years old at the time, and I pretty much exclusively played on battle.net for the most part (through my local internet cafe, since I didn't really have internet at home at that time, this was during the 56k - DSL days, eventually I did get a stable internet connection most likely around 2004-2005, by that time though, 1.11/b had been released). This was definitely a critical part of my life in my early childhood development, so definitely Diablo II had a massive impact on my life (and other early Blizzard games such as StarCraft + Brood War, Warcraft III ROC + TFT, and while not Blizzard, I have to give a shot out to Valve for CS 1.5 / CZ / and eventually CS 1.6 - although this is Steam only unfortunately). After 1.11, I don't recall playing Diablo as much anymore (maybe sometimes) until around 2013 which is when I discovered Time Traveling and eventually released Bliss Version Switcher, which was eventually re-written from scratch into Cactus around 2018 IIRC). Throughout that time, Blizzard North was already dead (2003, pretty much all of the core folks left), and then Blizzard HQ closed down Blizzard North officially in 2005 (Although I don't consider any changes released to D2 after the leadership and Peter Hu left as canon releases, which is why I play 1.10 as my last version). This also means that I also don't use the 1.10 Ladder Runewords that were released during the middle of 2004 and made public around the end of 2004. I don't believe Peter Hu was at the company anymore so I don't know if those RWs were actually planned to be released by Peter or if they were thing that Blizzard North wanted. Given I have no confirmation of this, Singling doesn't have support for LRWs for 1.10.

These include: Brand, Death, Destruction, Dragon, Dream, Edge, Faith, Fortitude, Grief, Harmony, Ice, Infinity, Insight, Last Wish, Lawbringer, Oath, Obedience, Phoenix, Pride, Rift, Spirit, Voice of Reason, and Wrath.

The only runewords available during Day 1 1.10 release are: Beast, Bramble, Breath of the Dying, Call To Arms, Chains of Honor, Chaos, Crescent Moon, Delirium, Doom, Duress, Enigma, Eternity, Exile, Famine, Gloom, Hand of Justice, Heart of the Oak, Kingslayer, Passion, Prudence, Sanctuary, Splender, Stone, and Wind.

Given that I do believe that the Runewords added in 1.10 are way to OP to the point of being a net negative for the itemization of the game, not having the 23 runewords is a good thing. Also given that the 1.10 rune drop rate is low, this will further reduce the problem of easily being able to get high runes, easily crafting one of these godly runewords, and then just proceeding to wreck the game and thus make the game more boring. I've spoken about this before, but the TLDR is that Runewords being this powerful means that once you get one, everything in that slot is essentially useless for that character (and or all of your characters if you are gonna transfer that item to that character). In a game about randomization, having deterministic items (Runewords and Crafting in general) means that it will reduce the dopamine hit in between item upgrades for the particular slot. You can read more about this in The Case For Always Going Untwinked. Either way, on the positive note, having the low drop rate also means that when I do eventually have that high Rune drop, it will actually mean something since I don't have the increased rune drop rates introduced in 1.13. It's funny because I was actually in favor of that change at the time, but from my understanding watching interviews from David Brevik, the Rune rarities were intentionally made to be low due to it being designed to be 1. A currency for multiplayer to help post rust-storm, and 2. due to the multiplayer nature, having people killing millions of monsters every month, the low drop rates essentially guaranteed a steady but low High rune to be dropped/found and thus enter the economy. This does mean that if you increase the Rune drop rates (including online), it's just gonna flood the market. I feel the Rune drop rate change if anything should have been increased in Single Player, but lowered even further in Battle.net. Either way, it will be a dopamine hit for me to find these high runes with lower drop rates on the original and final Blizzard North patch, 1.10.

I've been avoiding coming back to 1.10 for a long time, not because I don't like or love it, but for other reasons. With me now playing 1.05b, 1.09b, and other versions for so long, I'm finally ready to come back home and finally reach end game, and enjoy that endgame in my childhood patch. I still love 1.05b, and 1.09b and will be playing those versions, but I've been away from 1.10 for like decades it feels like now lol, and it's time to remedy that. I did play 1.10 a bit maybe within the last 10 years but I didn't really stay in Hell or even playing it for that long, so I want to actually commit a little bit more to this. You'll still see some videos being uploaded for all of the other versions I'm playing as well.

To start off this new universe (thus new stashes isolated from the other universes): "Lotus (HC)", I'll be making a summon necro. We all know Summon Necro wasn't that strong pre 1.10, so I'm coming back with a vengeance lol. This will also be a HC stash as well, and I most likely will also be starting a 1.09b HC universe as well. Let the games begin. Long Live Blizzard North (and thanks to all of the OGs from Blizzard South as well, 1993-2004).

 

[fearedbliss]

A2 is done, no issues. I noticed cold enchanted monster damage seems to be higher in 1.10 than in 1.05b, at least it feels that way, but makes sense. I also found a pair of chancies but they are eth.

 

[fearedbliss]

A3 done. Nothing crazy, steady progress.

 

[fearedbliss]

Beating Diablo with a summoner is not the best even in 1.10 lol, we'll see how strong they can get and tank in later difficulties. But I was able to beat him.

 

[fearedbliss]

Normal has been completed. There is definitely a difficulty bump in 1.10 but more in a way where things just feel slower to kill, not necessarily more challenging because of specific improvements, although I do know that the AI was improved, and it is better, but still, I know they bumped up the HP and "forgot" to adjust melee weapon damage.. although if you think about it that is definitely one way to increase difficulty, the longer it takes you to kill something, the more you need to have gear and strategy to be able to withstand the increase duration of pain.. however if you have good defenses capabilities and can hold out without taking much damage, then the increase HP and lower weapon damage just means it will be a long and boring fight. It just makes me miss 1.09b a lot more and makes me reflect of both 1.05b and 1.09b. However, the gameplay does feel pretty smooth and refined, and item drop pacing is pretty good as well. Even though 1.10 is a good patch and probably was good for the longevity of the game, 1.09b is amazing and I tend to have been preferring the pre-1.10 game style and balance even though it isn't the best, it's still really good. Which means, another character in coming in 1.09b? or maybe Succulent? Stay tuned!

 

[galaxyhaxz]

Yeah. 1.10's "difficulty" spike was definitely somewhat cheesy in that they just unified monsters into level based stats and gave them 4-8x more life on average on night and hell. The AI changes and additional mods may have been good, but that change really broke so much of the game, not just melee, but think how thorns/iron maiden no longer work. Monster have too much life and do too little base damage. Overall it doesn't have the same difficulty you get in 1.05b from monsters always hitting you and items being less toned down.

 

[scuti]

It looks like this thread explains the difference between how we perceive RNG and gaming.

I enjoy Rune Words specifically because it represents incremental deterministic progress towards a desired game item. Because my highlight of the game was never about the 'dopamine hit' of a drop as it was the new builds that an item would enable.

For perspective, modern gamers complain about the grind in a game like Warframe, even though the drop rate of a "target" item is around 1 in 11 runs which is extremely generous compared to grinding for popular unique items in Diablo II. Giving someone the false impression because of an online guide that they "need" Skin of the Vipermagi for their meteorb Sorceress would be a source of frustration while an RW like Stealth (tal+eth) is affordable.

The runes involved for godly RWs like Last Wish are insanely rare to the point their existence has little bearing on gameplay. Even with 1.13c Hellforge and Countess, multiple high runes are not likely to be found within the ~5-8 hours of playtime a character spends completing Hell difficulty for the first time.

(This entire post is from the lens of playing singleplayer/lan.)

 

[galaxyhaxz]

I actually was drawn to D2 so much because of the runewords, at first. It was like 2006-2007 when I first started playing, rarely had access to the internet, and 1.11 rune drop rates meant no high runes, especially for a kid that doesn't know how to target farm lower kurast. I remember spending hours with my brother drawing the runewords like Breath of the Dying on paper, and we'd use plastic swords/etc. and larp as if we had them. It was literally an obsession for a time. Since you know the runeword is guaranteed once you get the runes, you get quite the dopamine hit when the last rune needed finally drops, because you know immediately you have that item/build enabler.

But... the real problem with them is that they completely destroy all other items in the game. Ideally, going by the original model Brevik intended, the best possible items would be purely random, so essentially, rares/crafts. If items were better balanced to give more options, the runewords would be mostly fine (albeit a few do need nerfing like Grief, though Infinity/Dream makes for many fun builds like melee sorc). Then people could mix and match some cool truly random stuff, and runewords would act more like progression towards truly random godly gear, rather than the other way around, using trash rares until beaten by even mediocre runewords.

 

[scuti]

Even on the rares and crafts, we see things a lot differently.

(RNG as a source of frustration, especially with Diablo II style crafting.)

It's been a while since I've played: I think one of the cool things about Median XL was being able to patch up okay-ish rolls into something good with orbs. In the Nioh series, the player character select which attribute on an item to re-roll. These are changes that undermine RNG that I consider to be advancements in game design.

I don't follow the personalities of Blizzard North employees. Not every change made after their departure was for the worse. Diablo II is indeed a classic but its far from being a perfect game.

 

[galaxyhaxz]

I'd like to see a system that implements multiple upgrade systems so you can have both. Ideally, you'd be able to find a rare or magic, and then upgrade it a few times, with some pseudo random and some targeted stats, so it gives players both RNG and a little personalization. Runewords could be greatly improved by also adding random stats to them, and perhaps class-based stats too for things like sorc orb or necro heads. I agree d2 is far from perfect. I still come back to it from time to time, but I increasingly want more mods and improvements.

 

[fearedbliss]

Lol it just goes to show everyone has their own preferences. I'm pretty happy and have become content through years of playing and experiencing Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 and multiple versions of D2, and I've stopped trying to make the game something that it isn't and enjoy every patch for what it is. This is also why I also like the Blizzard North philosophy of doing things. But I probably take it a step further than them and have gone in the other direction of embracing a game philosophy that takes control away from the player in a lot of ways. Everyone wants to be in control and wants things done their way, and receive things when they say they want it. Nobody has patience anymore. Diablo and Diablo II are games that are about RNG. It's a very high quality slot machine. If you don't like RNG, then you are gonna have a frustrating time with Diablo. Embrace the journey, the grind, and have patience and it will be a hell of an experience. There's a lot of items I still haven't found in decades of playing, and that's not necessarily a bad thing... It could be depending on how you look at it, but it can also be an opportunity as well. I've written relatively extensively in those posts that I've linked above about why determinism in a game made to be an RNG based game is a bad thing. Crafting and Runewords directly contradict that pattern. But I suppose introducing a bit of determinism was their point. I do think they are fun additions to the game, but it does contradict the RNG and the dopamine loop directly which is part of the game design. There is a balance to everything though. For example part of the dopamine experience I guess you can say for Diablo 1 was that clicking was also a sort of dopamine generator in a way, so the more you click, the more you feel like you are progressing or doing something to benefit your character, thus you clicked on every single attack swing in Diablo 1, you clicked every gold pile, every item pick up, skill trigger, etc. However we do know that clicking so much also means getting RSI / Carpal Tunnel and that definitely isn't fun lol. So Diablo 2 automated some particular things, but D2 could be a little bit less clicky (but we should still keep it clicky overall though).

But yea, enjoy the game the way you want to enjoy it on your own computer as long as it doesn't affect anyone else.

 

[Manny]

1.09b is amazing and I tend to have been preferring the pre-1.10 game style and balance even though it isn't the best, it's still really good. Which means, another character in coming in 1.09b? or maybe Succulent? Stay tuned!

Now you're talking! Come back home to 1.09! I've kept the fire kindled and there's beer in the fridge... (er, stash)?

 

[scuti]

Nobody has patience anymore.

Modern gaming doesn't lack virtue. It's generally understood in game design that grinding can pad the game length without meaningful content. It's fair to say that people get games for new stories, characters, and scenarios while the game items are means to an end.

Everyone wants to be in control and wants things done their way, and receive things when they say they want it.

A robust crafting system basically removes the need to hoard items in an infinite shared stash. (Diablo II is maybe the only game in my library where muling is a thing.)

Basically this topic reminded me of a rare assassin claw I found.

If I didn't have PlugY enabling shared stash, multiple instances of Diablo II, or the patience to transfer two items using two computers, +2 assassin +3 lightning sentry claw would either be 3 units occupied in my Necromancer's inventory forever or just 35,000 gold.

But in any other game, I'd probably sell an analogous item without much conscience then craft something like it on a character that can use it.

 

[fearedbliss]

Lol it's all good @scuti. As long as you are having fun playing the games you wanna play, that's all that matters .

 

[galaxyhaxz]

A robust crafting system basically removes the need to hoard items in an infinite shared stash.

I feel like this still sort of happens even when you deal with crafting, at least the way d2 implemented (no stackable ingredients, saving bases for finding them etc.). But yeah I think crafting really adds a lot to the game and helps you work towards something that's semi guaranteed. 1.07 in particular is the only patch where it really shines through though, due to a few bugs which allowed crafts to get far better affixes and more sockets than intended, coupled with the ingredients being super hard to come by and no rune upgrade system. It's definitely a lot of fun being able to play for an hour a day and reliably make a few crafts per day.

For a mod I think it would be cool to bind certain items to certain areas of the game to both encourage players to play more locations, and to make the meta more exciting. For example, the 1.07 rainbow amulet recipe is a nice one, as it adds all resistances as a passive stat, meaning you can roll a double all resist (up to +%66% all resist) on a single amulet! It would be cool to tie a different gem to each act, so you only get amythests in act 1, sapphires in act 2, etc. and then people have to grind each location evenly for the ingredients to make it.

 

[scuti]

I had modern RPGs in mind when I mentioned the crafting system.

E.G the player disassembles the drops from monsters into "armor scraps", "leather straps", "(monster) claw/fang/part", "divine fragment" and these components are stackable to x999.

The player goes to the blacksmith and requests to build a "base item" (as understood in Diablo II) and add some enhancements.

 

[Kythian]

Man I've been trapped in a 25 yr old deja vu fantasmal for the past 7 hrs(including my typical big bowl of honeycomb after school and the first seasons of Futurama and South Park playing in the background. Just missing the crappy 90s pop music on the radio haha. Although Coors Light has "Vanessa Carlton - A thousand miles" (Dear jebus I still have the names imbeded in the back of my skull like an old buddy that became a tumor) playing on their commercial every 10 mins...

But all of what you said hit home so hard except instead of CS I was playing Asherons Call (where I was reminiscing at on reddit before here) same exact yrs and everything. My little town in a valley in the middle of bfe didn't even get dsl as an option until sometime 2003 so it was just 3 of us that did local at a buddies with 1.0.5 for forever (I remember having to grab my *1000 lb* tower on our way from school and carry it to his place 3 blocks away everyday). Thankfully his dad had an extra monitor or actually if he wasn't watching the tv one of us could hook up to his 60" flat screen. His dad had the most amazing up to date technological setup of anyone at the time (We would blast Iron Maiden, Meatloaf, Metallica and Black Sabbath to the entire town until sunset). But he was like the 2nd in command at some major IT company so he had the prime hookups for all the top quality technology. He was actually one of the main people to persuade the town board into saying something to Dish/Comcast and finally get a tower built in town so we could get dsl. If it wasn't for him we might not have gotten it for like another 5+ yrs. Heck our only bar in town just got in a card reader last summer, the half-ass atm had been fully broken for 10+ yrs (bank/atm next door is why). Our only gas station doesn't take debit inside, pump readers don't work 90% of the time and half the town still doesn't have cable internet (other half has been 10 yrs "in the works"), so were still a few/20+ yrs behind.

Trying to think but I don't even remember if we played 1.09 without the X, I'm pretty sure we got LoD before it came out or around the same time anyways. His dad got the X for us like the 2nd day it came out and burnt us all copies, until he realized we needed seperate codes to play online and got 2 more copies for us as early birthday gifts haha. And we ended up getting dsl before 1.10 so I started playing AC for real for about 5ish yrs so I didn't really play that until a few yrs later on a burnt copy and didn't have internet for a moment nor could find my LoD disc but I remember despising the nightmare difficulty, something with the gameplay and those damn rune words. The synergies I was half and half on depending on the toon. I remember I liked playing the druid and her synergy went well with a certain setup that was relatively easy to put together and fun to play with. Then when i did get internet again and got back online the whole online community was just chaotic with rampant spamming, stealing/breaking into players accounts and you could hardly find people that were actually playing to get a group together. That was the last time I actually played online (I dicked around for a couple hrs a few yrs ago), that would've been 2008/9... But that was the beginning of my/our 3 yr endeavor into chain smoking out of everything we could make into a bong, chasing 3am Country Kitchen/Perkins/beach/cave girls and trialing out a series of hated 2nd jobs, (finally settled at a car wash, main job was cooking at Houlihans/Hilton) so wasn't like I would've went much farther if it had been a good experience regardless.

It was a fun 10 yr span then the next 10 got waaay more goofy and intense and now I scare/yell at the kids that come on my lawn, starting 30 yrs early haha... Think it's time for a brew tho since it's not 100° outside for once.

 

[Manny]

The late 90s/2000s were the best times for sure. The days before social media, smartphones, DRM locked digital games, endless streaming services & subscriptions, and well, why go on, we all get the point, lol. Nostalgia is indeed a hell of a drug! Welcome to the forum, @Kythian!