Why I don’t play Diablo 2: Resurrected

Manny

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 6, 2022
Messages
458
Points
28
The image below depicts one of the many reasons why I have not, and will never purchase this game. I will go more into my personal thoughts about the game later on.
51959830920_ab95676d76_b.jpg

From:https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo2/comments/thw0qx/is_this_a_joke_blizzard_yes_im_offline_since_30/
 
Definitely. DRM is one of the main reasons I didn’t get it and won’t get it. But the guy is complaining when Blizzard clearly stated way before the game was released that there will be a periodic check when you start the game pretty much. Although Blizzard is obviously not the only one doing this. Steam as a platform is pretty much all about this exact type of DRM mechanism. I also stopped buying games from Steam a while ago and l just get stuff either from CDs on eBay or GOG if I’m fine with a digital only offline DRM free copy of the game.
 
It’s funny how game companies have been doing this since the Atari and Amiga days. You couldn’t back up your legit copy of a game. Lose the card or manual and you couldn’t play as you couldn’t enter the right code at the start of the game. DRM only hurts legit owners!

I agree with your sentiments over Steam too. I was playing Cities: Skylines and didn’t want automatic updates to break all my mods. However, mods are disabled if you play offline! Bizzare! And why should I have to start the Steam client just to play my legit copy of a game? I ended up playing a cracked copy but even then had problems as some mods require Steam Workshop.

Forcing someone to go online every 30 days in D2R makes no sense. If someone has bought, installed and had their installation verified what will have changed in the last 30 days?! \"Login Agreement\"? WTF?
 
[mention]hedgesparrow[/mention] Yea you are right that in the past the physical cartridge itself was the DRM, but also the internet didn’t exist back then and eventually when it did, it still was in it’s infancy and nobody really had internet so physical media still dominated as the main distribution method. Since most people also didn’t have internet, companies also didn’t make people download day 1 required patch updates, nor did they release games that were incomplete.. essentially. Then over time you end up with us being able to legally (at least in the US) back up our media through fair use laws if you owned the original media: like my post here.

Physical media for newer games now isn’t the same. A bunch of them require online updates. I tried to give consoles a try again for a few reasons but ultimately I decided to sell off my entire Xbox One X collection since I didn’t like the concept of -having to- have a Microsoft account and having to log in and connect to the internet on that console before I could even play any of those games. I still have my Microsoft account (which doesn’t have much) but I no longer have my Xbox since I don’t want to continue investing money given that requirement. I’m just happy that I’m pretty content and happy with the older games and have so many old game options to choose from that still fit in within my current principles, and that I’m not that into newer games nowadays anyways.

As for digital games, I used to buy these more in the last but given what I said before about Steam being a DRM platform pretty much and they were the ones that popularize and made that type of model viable for a lot of people, I can’t continue to support them. It doesn’t matter for me how cheap or not you make the game, I don’t truly own it if you keep checking on me and can easily take away my entire collection. I love digital games though, it’s a beautiful form factor and it’s good for the environment, but I also like physical media primarily for the games that I love the most or really want to have (like my d2 collection, HGL collectors, etc) but for any other games, saving space and getting them and backing them up digitally is awesome. However when going digital, if has to be DRM free. Or no dice. I’ll definitely continue to support GOG. They are doing everything right.
 
I’m with you on GOG, fantastic site that’ll continue to support.

I’ve heard of more recent game DVD sales where you have to download part of the game or it only includes a Steam installer, lol. Requiring the internet at all for a physical media sale is piss poor!
 
Yup that’s correct. I was disappointed when I bought my Torchlight II Indiebox that yea it contained a Steam Key, fine.. but it also came with a TL2 installation CD. Problem was the install CD was actually just the Steam Installer with a backup CSD (Steam Backup) file of TL2.. that’s the opposite of what I wanted from a physical CD. Of course now I have the TL2 stuff on sale on eBay again for anyone who already has TL2 on Steam but wanted some physical materials for their collection.

Definitely do not buy physical media if it’s just a Steam shortcut lol. That’s practically a scam lol. At least if your goal is for physical media to mean \"I own the game without any other company dependencies, requirements, or an internet connection - game works as is\".
 
I love GoG! It’s the only place I buy games now, unless there was a full install disc version available, in which case I’ll look for that first on eBay.

Regarding D2R, my personal (often subjective) thoughts:

1.) Resurrected is a misnomer. The D2 community never let this game die. There were several private servers and communities still actively playing this game when they began development.

2.) The original graphics were not honored. A game, to me, is quite literally an art-piece that you interact with. In the case of Diablo II, this art was created 20+ years ago by folks that are most likely now in their late 40’s and 50’s. And they made specific decisions for the game they were creating. It was interesting and bold that Blizzard North stuck to their roots and decided to put out the very best 2D game they could in the year 2000. While most other studios were spending tons of money getting on the 3D bandwagon, they intentionally moved in a completely different direction, and boy did it pay off.

The sad part is that the modern Blizzard obviously pushed & pursued this change in art direction. Why couldn’t they approach the D2 remaster as they did the original Starcraft? Did they change the design of the units, buildings, etc. in the Starcraft remaster? No. As far as I could tell, aside from tweaking the UI for widescreens, all the original designs were left alone, and were simply upscaled/beautified to accommodate much higher resolutions. Why couldn’t they follow the same philosophy with D2R? Because the Amazon was really too feminine? Give me a break. The original hero designs in D2 are iconic. The new designs look old, weathered, and ugly.

3.) The removal of TCP/IP (because security? :roll: )

The original game released 20+ years ago with this feature. Vicarious Visions built an entire new game engine that interacts with the old game in real-time (kudos to them, this was impressive), but they can’t figure this out, because it introduces risks? I call BS. Where there is a will, there is a way. The truth is obvious for those who have been following the game industry for the last decade or more. It has little do with security, and is really about their want/need to control every aspect of your experience. TCP/IP means FREEDOM to play without a “Game Master” nearby to supervise your play-time. Now, now, children, you must play nice in our sandbox that you PAID for and we allow you to spend time in... :lol:
 
Honestly I thought they did an amazing job with the graphics, so in that respect I think that they were faithful to it (Excluding Amazon’s face LOL and some other characters.. the character models could have been more faithful for sure, but the other environmental stuff was fine). But I was highly skeptical that they weren’t gonna just cave into people’s demands and change the game. I’ve said this before in other places, but I’ve gotten over it in terms that I didn’t buy D2R and am not planning on ever buying it and also I look at D2R as a fork / mod of Diablo II that is developed by the Blizzard folks (aka Not Blizzard North). In this aspect, I’m fine if they change whatever they want, ruin it or whatever because Diablo II is Diablo II, it has already been released, and D2R != D2 so whatever. D2R is effectively a game for a new generation of players (including some old timers that are fine with or are expecting even old remasters (at this point the word remaster isn’t even being faithfully executed, you are correct in that the SC remastered is more faithful to what the word remaster is suppose to mean. With the latest changes coming in I wouldn’t say D2R is a D2 remake because I don’t think it is, but I also don’t think it’s a remastered either, because it’s pretty different to the original and the new 2.4 changes - and definitely changes coming after 2.4 - will continue to make the fork deviate further and further away). It seems people don’t understand the reason why a lot of the design was done the way it was and what makes D2, D2. The bad and the good is what makes the experience we had. And in a separate conversation we could of course spend hours just talking about what each particular topic of change means, and what changing it means: Stash Tabs? Shared Stash? Etc). To pick just one of these, Shared Stash let’s say. Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 were made so that people pretty much don’t twink their characters and are only playing and finding gear with just that character themselves. At least on Single Player. On Battle.net people can obviously trade so this particular piece doesn’t work in the same aspect but that would make sense given that it’s multiplayer. For Diablo 1, Single Player literally didn’t even have a stash. Since your SP map didn’t re-roll (Same as in D2, but with the added effect that the Diablo 1 map not only didn’t re-roll but it didn’t re-roll because the entire save state was saved), so what people ended up doing was just dropping all of their stuff in town (Close to the fountain and Cain) and just playing the game. Once you finished beating the game, you would need to go back to your town, pick up anything you wanted to keep (like a squirrel) and keep it in your inventory, and get rid of everything else. Afterwards you could re-roll a new Single Player map and rinse and repeat.

In Diablo II, Blizzard North added a stash (The small classic 6x4 stash) so you didn’t have to leave everything on the floor. However it was obvious that making the stash that small was done also so that you could have a little bit of item persistence given that Single Player maps don’t re-roll but they don’t save all of the game world state either, adding to the game / difficulty randomization. Having a small stash means people were forced to make decisions about what items can be kept and what can’t be kept. Not having any official method of transferring items means that you are only playing untwinked, and it truly is SSF (Not this newish PoE style SSF definition people want to use of \"Oh I’m playing by myself but I can still give all of my other characters items that the other characters found\". I can see the logic with that and it has its merit - that’s more of a \"I’m passing down my inheritance to my child that is in the same world as me\" mentality - but SSF traditionally I would say would have meant something like: \"Two Single Player characters are completely independent from each other in completely separate parallel universes, thus no \"inheritance\" is possible and only untwinked play is viable). But regardless, on SP we can use the multiple instances / LAN approach to be to replicate battle.net \"trading\" behavior and twink our other characters. Of course twinking massively changes the intended game experience for Single Player characters, and it also shows in the sense that most of the items in D2 suck, so if you’ve twinked your character, finding a Bonehew, or any other item most likely won’t give you that dopamine rush you would have gotten if you had a fully isolated untwinked chararacter that had crappy gear and then found a Bonehew. In that latter case, Bonehew could be a massive godsend from the RNG gods. So it’s interesting how when you play untwinked, all of the 95% of crappy D2 items actually make sense and feel satisfying. It may sound like I hate twinking or something but I don’t, most of my life I’ve twinked, but I can clearly see the design of D1 and D2 weren’t made for twinking (at least on Single Player). For bnet, well trading is essential so people are obviously going to twink just through the nature of everyone being together and trading. But don’t tell me SSF means \"I’m playing alone and finding items with my own hands\". The hands of who? In their case, it’s the hands of their human - real world - persona VS the hands of the actual character playing in the game world. It just seems people want to have their cake and eat it at the same time - in terms of definitions.

Since D2R introduced an official Shared Stash, that change alone changes the original intent of the game’s experience. They’ve removed LAN which is something I’m completely against for different reasons, but it also affects Single Player people that want to 1. Be able to play with people in an offline capacity, at least offline away from official battle.net servers and 2. Allow people to self mule with a modified dll that would have to be done with D2R. Of course point 2 is \"Solved\" given the shared stash, but it has the consequence of changing the intent of the original Blizzard North developers. But like I said, to me D2R is a fork so whatever, it’s a different generation, a different game, so it could have a different set of standards by their current player base.

They (Blizzard) said that they couldn’t keep LAN because of security reasons due to people being able to try and re-use the networking code as a way to try and test/build attacks/exploits that could be used on Battle.net, I think there is reason to believe that would be true, but I don’t think this is the main reason. The reason is obvious that it is to protect their corporate profits and try and prevent people from pirating the game. From a business perspective, I think that removing LAN _AND_ having DRM _IS_ the right approach for them. If we look at PC Diablo III, 10 years later, and we still don’t have a DRM-free version of Diablo III working on PC. People tried early on to have some sort of Private Server (similar to WoW’s Private Servers), and nothing. So from a business perspective, D3 DRM was extremely effective and successful, but it came at a huge cost of consumer rights, which I’m not in favor of. As I said, I agree that from a business perspective, DRM was the right approach (especially the way they did it of having always online DRM and maybe not even having all of the code locally), but as a consumer I refuse to support it. I actually did buy D3 Collector’s Edition on PC back when it first came out, and I played D3 Day 1, 3:00 AM ET and had those Error 37 errors lol, but I was a lot younger back then. When the Blizzard stuff happened recently (with the California lawsuit), I made the difficult decision to officially delete my Battle.net account, which meant I lost all of my purchased Blizzard games, including my D3 CE license (So no more Tyrael wings for me). But oh well. If I want a DRM free copy of Diablo III, I’ll re-buy a D3 copy on my Switch. Luckily, the majority of my \"purchased Blizzard games\" were actually physical copies of my old D2 / War 3 / etc original 16 digit license keys that I had imported into the Battle.net system to get the newly generated keys used with their updated installers. So in reality I lost only a fragment of my stuff. If this was a fully digital account, then I would have lost 100% of the purchases.

Anyways, as you can see, I have a lot to say about this but I’ll stop here lol. I suppose you can say most of this are thoughts that have been developing for years, but I haven’t really had an outlet to express it given that I don’t have any social media accounts. The Moving Caravan is a perfect place for me to let it all out LOL.
 
I see what you mean about D2R and D3 avoiding piracy by being online only. It has been successful in that a pirated game isn’t available. You can get the switch versions of both D2R and D3 and use them with a switch emulator for PC however.

Even online only doesn’t work if people are determined enough. Private servers have been around for years for World of Warcraft. Private classic WoW servers were so successful that it even lead to Blizzard releasing WoW: Classic.

I think Blizzard seeing what private servers were doing and following their trend actually shows how wrong the avoid-piracy-at-all-costs approach is for games companies. Some gamers won’t ever pay for a game and won’t be forced to, however there are plenty of gamers that want to pay to support a good game and will buy it even if a pirated version is available. There may be a few that buy the game if a pirated version isn’t avaiable but I doubt they are anything more than a minority. My point is, release the game without DRM and let the community flourish! Even if people don’t pay for a game they may rave about it to friends and create free advertising.

DRM only ever hurts the legitimate players that buy the game!
 
I see what you mean about D2R and D3 avoiding piracy by being online only. It has been successful in that a pirated game isn’t available. You can get the switch versions of both D2R and D3 and use them with a switch emulator for PC however.

Right, but the PC version still isn’t available so in terms of preventing people from playing the PC version of the game, they have been successful.

Even online only doesn’t work if people are determined enough. Private servers have been around for years for World of Warcraft. Private classic WoW servers were so successful that it even lead to Blizzard releasing WoW: Classic.

WoW was an exception where there was such a willpower in the world’s community (World’s as in real life planet Earth, not Azeroth LOL) that they were able to reverse engineer and reconstruct an independent private server implementation. 99% of games that have this sort of Online DRM are not going to receive this type of treatment.

I think Blizzard seeing what private servers were doing and following their trend actually shows how wrong the avoid-piracy-at-all-costs approach is for games companies. Some gamers won’t ever pay for a game and won’t be forced to, however there are plenty of gamers that want to pay to support a good game and will buy it even if a pirated version is available. There may be a few that buy the game if a pirated version isn’t avaiable but I doubt they are anything more than a minority. My point is, release the game without DRM and let the community flourish! Even if people don’t pay for a game they may rave about it to friends and create free advertising.

DRM only ever hurts the legitimate players that buy the game!

Yea for sure, although I would say don’t buy the game, therefore you won’t get hurt lol. I have a lot of DRM games still that I bought in the past, and I pretty much treat them as partially lost money, or look at them as games that could be taken away from me at any second, so they are not permanent in any way. Although I don’t buy any new games with DRM so I feel pretty content about that. There are already so many games (older games) that I have and that I enjoy and want to replay, and have so many other non-gaming, non computer things I want to do in my life, that not buying or having access to newer DRMed games is really not a big deal for me, if anything it’s a great thing as I can focus on more important things in life. The way I see it is if you are still buying DRMed games, you pretty much shouldn’t complain at this point, you know what you are getting, the company is still gonna screw with you, and they are not gonna \"change their minds\" because you want to help them out their DRM versions of the game (while on the side possibly pirating it). If anything it’s sending a mixed signal to the company.
 
Great discussion gentlemen.

[mention]hedgesparrow[/mention] Atari? Amiga? I feel young again! :lol:

[mention]fearedbliss[/mention] No worries amigo. Share away. And I hear you on having no social media -- that makes two of us.

RE: D2R -- I might have came off as too harsh on the graphics. They are certainly very impressive (particularly the new fire animations for me). In addition, the lighting, shadows, resolution, etc. etc. can all be justly said to be vastly superior to the original. BUT -- I just love the original/retro/2D design. Call it nostalgia or whatever, but that tends to be what I gravitate to. This isn’t specific to D2 either -- I also love older fighting games, particularly ones from SNK from the late 90’s, and Capcom to a slightly lesser degree, before they both made the jump to 3D.

I also appreciate your POV regarding D2R being in essence a fork/mod of D2. Thank God we still can play the original game in the way the original developers envisioned (albeit with a few nice fixes thanks to the community, e.g. Singling)! I am also happy to have backups of the (DRM-free) legacy Warcraft III + TFT installers (1.21b), plus a backup of every single .exe patch ever released for the game, courtesy of the official Blizzard FTP. WC3 is still probably my #2 favorite PC game of all time. I was highly disappointed when they killed the classic battle.net servers when they released Reforged. That was the final nail in Blizzard’s coffin as far as I am concerned.

Oh, and Diablo III? That was a bullet I well dodged. To this day I’ve never spent a penny on the game or a minute playing it. That online-only stuff was a massive turn off for me, and by that time I had long quit WoW and video games in general (I recall my last time logging into WoW was 03.2010). As early as the Burning Crusade days I remember feeling that I was wasting time & money playing a game in which I had no ownership whatsoever in the characters that I was spending hours playing each night. I’ve only recently within the past few years starting playing video games again, and have been VERY selective. That’s how I discovered GoG, and of course D2 was at the top of my list :D

You know, I also noticed in that Reddit post where the OP is complaining about the DRM, if you scroll through the comments there are more than a few replies that are basically supporting Blizzard’s DRM, and trolling him. I mean, yeah, he should have known this about the game prior to purchasing it, and it’s Reddit after all, but it’s still pretty amazing to me that any consumer could be in support of DRM. I think it’s telling of how much people are willing to give up for the latest/greatest thing (whatever that may be).
 
I was reading comments about Steam as a DRM and most people aren’t bothered as long as it works. Someone made the fair point they have used it for 10 years without a problem. Of course, that is no guarantee for the next 10 years. The person making the topic also faced negativity such as \"oh god, another DRM thread\" which is strange!
 
Lol yea most people don’t really care about a lot of issues but whatever, I’ll do what I need to do to protect myself and my own investments. They can get screwed if they want to. Not my money or time. Same thing applies to privacy and security issues.
 
fearedbliss said:
I’ve uploaded a video about why I don’t play D2R.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR16Lih1MNw

Nice video bro. You’re a bit scatter brained, which I can relate to. Sometimes it helps having some things jotted down nearby just to help remember your main points xD (I hope you don’t mind that little critique -- all love)

And that’s hella cool that you had an opportunity to work at Blizzard, but if that means that Cactus/Singling wouldn’t have happened, then you definitely made the right choice. Actually, it was the right call regardless. They are not the folks responsible for Diablo II and your take on D2R being a mod is 100% accurate! Your points on that one were spot on and well articulated.

Oh, and you also said something to the affect of \"I’ll be playing D2 for the rest of my life...\", -- well, you are not alone man. I know that feeling... :lol:
 
[mention]Manny[/mention] Haha, the \"scattered brain\" thing is intentional. I just wanted to sit down and express my thoughts but without editing, just real time and letting the ideas come to me. I feel like there is way too much editing nowadays in videos and not as many \"realistically\" expressed \"just a human talking to a friend at a park\" type of thing. Overall it just makes the whole experience much more enjoyable for me. But definitely, during \"speeches\" it’s good to have a few bullet points down like what you are saying ;). But another reason was that it was unplanned. I’ve been thinking about whether or not I wanted to even say this for many years and idk, yesterday just felt like the right time to do it and it just came out naturally.

Lol @ \"playing D2 forever\" :).
 
@fearedbliss That’s a great point man! Most of the time we don’t think about what it’s like to create these videos and instead focus on the viewer’s perspective. The \"friend at the park\" vibe is totally fitting too for a game like D2 where it’s like visiting an old friend! Keep doing you brother ;)
 
Haha we getting old. I still haven’t forgotten about the 1.09b post. It’s coming ... Lol.
 
fearedbliss said:
Haha we getting old. I still haven’t forgotten about the 1.09b post. It’s coming ... Lol.

Bro you already know I’m waiting for that! I did notice on that video that your title screen had 1.09 showing. I was like ohhhh shiet :mrgreen:

Oh and hey... if you need anything... LMK. I know you are hella independent and won’t accept anything, but I figured I’d offer anyway. I’ve got a dozen or so mules with all kind of uniques, complete sets, and even some bad ass rares. As you know I’ve been china man farming with my Sorc lol. So if there’s anything you need to get going... you know what to do. ;)
 
Haha. My sorc already beat hell and is level 70, and my barb is level 52 and in NM. I’ve actually been thinking of maybe starting a completely separate Cactus entry where I could use it for MP only. Maybe we can coordinate something, I remember you wanted to do some MP stuff last year. We’ll talk about it soon. I’m fine with any patch between 1.05b, 1.07, 1.08, 1.09b, and 1.10. Classic and LOD are both fine.
 
Back
Top